19 Responses to “Ramblings 13” »»

1. Yams
   Comment by Yams | 05/29/07 at 8:15 pm

   I’d great your client with a Namaste. No hand shaking required but still acknowledges the person as well as respects his culture.

   When do we get Mister’s unabridged list?

2. Pete
   Comment by Pete | 05/29/07 at 10:48 pm

   Simple enough, he’s a client and you like his money you respect his custom. His custom might be outdated but it’s still his custom. Besides, he could have cooties and you might not want to touch him.

3. Phil
   Comment by Phil | 05/29/07 at 10:49 pm

   Simple enough, he’s a client and you like his money you respect his custom. His custom might be outdated but it’s still his custom. Besides, he could have cooties and you might not want to touch him.

4. biodtl
   Comment by biodtl | 05/30/07 at 5:55 am

   I don’t think I would be bothered by his not shaking hands. It would be different if he expected you to wear a burka or walk 10 paces behind him, but not shaking hands wouldn’t bother me. Since you know about it ahead of time, you won’t offer your hand and be faced with an uncomfortable situation.

5. Ian
   Comment by Ian | 05/30/07 at 7:30 am

   I’d stick out my hand as if to shake, then move it up and down in a “pretend” shaking motion for about three seconds. Of course, I’d be standing just a little outside of the proper hand-shake distance for humor purposes…

6. thejunebug
   Comment by thejunebug | 05/30/07 at 8:30 am

   Nod your head, smile, and bow a little. Though, if you don’t mind my asking, has he told you he will not shake your hand? Not all Muslims are that strict- my brother in law, for instance, is nowhere near like that. But you can’t go wrong with the nod, smile, and little bow. Just keep your hands clasped in front of you if it makes it easier. I deal with a lot of strict Muslim students/faculty in my job and that works just fine. Also don’t be surprised if he doesn’t make eye contact that often.

   Culturally, we should make adjustments for our fellows- diversity is our greatest strength!

7. Jaime
   Comment by Jaime | 05/30/07 at 10:25 am

   I work in an environment where some people are completely hands off and others will actually walk along holding hands with their colleagues. It makes for some interesting interactions.

   How about a head inclination – kinda like a curtsy but more modern and less showy. I find that the head – bow is an almost universally acceptable form of business greeting that actually has nothing to do with being subservient.

   I have to say though, it does seem a bit strange that he hasn’t adapted to North American business customs, it must make things very awkward for him at times.

   By the way, did he actually tell you that he wouldn’t shake hands? Very strange!

8. DDM
   Comment by DDM | 05/30/07 at 11:53 am

   The HELL?!! The hydrant?!! LOL!! I needed the giggle, thank you. Also, The Mister is very funny. I only gagged a little while reading his list.

9. ollka
   Comment by ollka | 05/30/07 at 1:38 pm

   i think it’s important to bear in mind that his unreadiness to shake hands with you is in no way personal. it’s not because you are a woman, it’s because his religious beliefs are like that. it is NOT the kind of issue you have been struggling with (fighting against), it’s just his religion that might well be making him as uncomfortable or worse.

   i say, go. bow your head and smile instead of trying to shake hands. this way, you’ll let him know that you respect his beliefs and that might well lead him to respect yours more. you’ll actually be doing more for your cause than if you didn’t go or tried to make a statement by forcibly getting in physical contact.

10. Steve
    Comment by Steve | 05/30/07 at 4:20 pm

    Culturally, he should make adjustments for our fellows- diversity is something he is not interested in. And it IS because you’re a woman. At least that’s what he said to my wife. Seems touching a woman’s hand can lead to more. Like stink weed leads to heroin and shaking hands leads to fucking. Like my wife said (to me, not him), What about shaking a man’s hand? Aren’t you concerned that might lead to a homosexual encounter? I say, until he learns to respect our culture (after all, he’s here – we’re not there. Y’know, when in Rome?) you walk up quickly and kiss him right smack on the mouth. Maybe even a little tongue if he hangs in there long enough. It’s starting to piss me off that respecting anothers culture seems to be a one way street.

11. Steve
    Comment by Steve | 05/30/07 at 4:23 pm

    I love the Mister’s sense of humor. I salute him!

12. Steve
    Comment by Steve | 05/30/07 at 4:41 pm

    And another thing.

    I spent some time in the Navy. When we entered a foreign port, we were taught local customs and instructed to adhere to them. We did, to the best of our ability. Of course I was uncomfortable… at first. Tough shit. I was in their “home”, and they were due that respect. We should be too. And if it’s about religion, their god is no more important than ours. That should go both ways, too.

13. Josh
    Comment by Josh | 05/30/07 at 6:40 pm

    Alright, here’s how I would deal with the Muslim dude. If he’s been a jerk to you in the past, meet him wearing a mini skirt and suprise him with a sloppy raspberry to the neck. If he’s been pretty cool before now, just don’t worry about the handshake and instead shake your bank tellers hand when you bring them a big fat pay check. But don’t let some backwards douchebag act like an ass to you just because his religion says he should. You wouldn’t let a Christian be a jerk. Don’t let him use his beliefs as a bastard pass. Remember Jerry Falwell? Not cool!

    Also, tell the Mister his list is awesome and we would love to see more. And the dwarf hydrant? What the hell? That was bigger than a regular hyddrant. What’s the deal with that thing? Funny caption though. It registered a four on the guffaw meter.

14. Mister
    Comment by Mister | 05/31/07 at 9:31 am

    “And the dwarf hydrant? What the hell? That was bigger than a regular hydrant. What’s the deal with that thing?”

    Josh, has anyone ever told you that you remind them of Jerry Seinfeld?

15. nstig8r
    Comment by nstig8r | 05/31/07 at 11:03 am

    i wouldn’t get hung up on the handshaking. i’m not sure what the appropriate alternative is for muslim men greeting women but you can greet someone properly & sufficiently with words & a smile, not just the handshake & hello. if you want to do business with the guy, then do it & remind yourself this is simply business. if you don’t like dealing with him because of his personal beliefs, then don’t do business with him anymore or just decline to meet in person.
    i do wonder if he has said to you that he won’t shake your hand or if you have assumed this because he’s muslim (which is a good assumption). if he hasn’t in fact said it & you do go to his city, then you’ll expect he won’t shake your hand & no uncomfortable moment will occur. if he doesn’t adhere that strictly to his religion’s customs then he’ll likely extend his own hand.

16. ollka
    Comment by ollka | 06/02/07 at 1:33 am

    Steve said, “And if it’s about religion, their god is no more important than ours. That should go both ways, too.” – I’m sorry, I never realized that your religion demanded of you to shake hands. Now really. I think everyone’s beliefs and customs should be respected, but in due proportion! Clearly, someone’s religious beliefs are more important to them than shaking hands is to you. I hope. You have alternatives – i.e., nods, smiles, words. He doesn’t. It’s not as though the Quran says: “Never touch a woman at home, but do touch her if you’re in her country.” And there are limits to respecting other people’s customs. You won’t go into a mosque to offer a little prayer to Allah if you’re in Baghdad, will you? Your religion doesn’t allow you to do that. His doesn’t allow him to shake your hand. Big deal.

17. Emily
    Comment by Emily | 06/02/07 at 3:52 am

    In Iraq, they greet each other by putting their right hand over their heart. I guess that’s probably more of an Arabic Muslim thing, but I just thought I’d throw it out there. But I don’t think you should avoid the meeting — since when is a (or lack thereof) handshake a dealbreaker? Does it really make that big of a difference if you can’t shake hands with him?

18. b.
    Comment by b. | 06/02/07 at 11:32 am

    As an American Muslim woman, I can assure you that not shaking hands has nothing to do with equality or oppressing women but is simply a religious requirement. I won’t shake hands with a man; it is a two-way street. It isn’t because I’m afraid that our next move would be to end up having a torrid affair or because men are horrid creatures covered in cooties. If you consider Muslim regulations for modesty (which, by the way, apply to both Muslim women AND Muslim men), you could perhaps see that it’s an extension of that modesty (and here it would be the man’s own sense of modesty and has really very little to do with Linda), and maybe even begin to see that it’s part of the Muslim sense of self, the Muslim sense of dignity and respect. I’d be deeply offended if a man took it upon himself to show me the error of my ways by giving me a big hug or doing some of the things some of the others here have suggested, especially in a professional/business relationship, where the assumption is that we will all behave as grownups and not as petulant teenagers intent on making a point…no matter how offensive. That would be the end of the relationship, quite frankly.

    I hope that you might see it as a sign of his respect for you that he let you know ahead of time, because his intent was doubtlessly to prevent misunderstandings and hurt feelings from arising. How awkward would it have been, and how would it have made you feel, if he didn’t let you know and then when you meet him, he refuses to shake your hand? Now you know. It’s nothing personal and isn’t so much because you’re a woman but because he’s a man. I guess that doesn’t seem like much of a difference but it is critical. He already knows the importance that Americans place on handshakes. He doesn’t need a demonstration via a bank teller. Why the assumption that because he does something outside the norm he is necessarily unaware of and blind to the norm?

    When meeting a man for the first time, I smile and nod. If it’s someone whom I can safely assume is unaware that I am not a hand-shaker, I keep my hands clasped behind my back and try to stay out of shaking range, at least until the intros are said and done (if he does know, I don’t worry about where my hands are or where I’m standing). My husband smiles, nods, and puts his hand on his heart (like Emily described, although my husband is not an Iraqi). There are really a thousand ways to be polite and friendly and to put the other person at ease *without* the need for some sort of touching.

    Sorry for the essay. I always did get marks on my school papers for being too wordy.

19. thejunebug
    Comment by thejunebug | 06/05/07 at 9:56 am

    *applauds b.*

    And steve, you must have a plexiglass bellybutton, is all I’m saying.

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